Kashmir for me is …. Mismanagement by Indian Government, which in turn exploited by Pakistan Government. Religion comes later, first is LAND. Humanity comes later, Religion first. The dogmas of Clergys & Politicians. Confusing.

Where muslim exist, Nowhere is peace
Is it Islam, or the followers is to be seen.

Voilence everywhere, where there are muslims is true, but no one would like to know the source. This topic demands a lot of time. sometime later.

Let me tell you there is no country in the world, which is Islamic. Most of Gulf countries or So called Muslim countires are Monarchy or run by clergys/politicians giving it the mask of democracy. T minorities are Asians there. ASIANs, not hindus or christians or muslims. All have the same status, minorities.

Islam has been mis-intrepreted, mis-translated by many. I dont want to go in details, if you are interested, please visit http://www.free-minds.org & http://www.ourbeacon.com & http://www.19.org.

As for Kashmir, I know about the massacres of the Pundits as well as the treatment of Muslims and I condemn both. Unfortunate why common people are so easily influenced by their leaders/politicians and do horrible things. Why doesnt Humanity takes first place rather than religion or color. Unfortunate.

Revenge is sweet so they say. Revenge brings hatred, hatred sows the seed of ignorance, the fruits reaped are blindness to injustice, irrespective.

Media and History are inter linked and what i see or hear today in the news and historical archives, it becomes difficult to accept it. History is His Story i.e. the story of the victorious. Unreliable. only the events can be accepts and not the hows and whys of that event.

The answer to Kashmir problem is UNITY among all people of Kashmir. Free elections, making it an autonomous region and supported (not interefered) by both Indians & Pakistanis.

Separate Independance is no answer as retaliation from both sides will occur, which will be harmful for Kashmiris. Making it and autonomous region and let both countries peacekeeping force remain to monitor peace.

I just hope that All humans, irrespective, live together in peace. seems impossible, not in my life. but shouldnt we strive for that.

I will end it here as it is becoming too big to read.

Saif

Just like the Indian Army, supposed to protect us are involved in Human Rights abuses, rapes, torture, killings – does that mean the actual standard laid by the army allows or permits them to do so? No it doesn’t , but the implementation is wrong. The media is hell bent on proving that Islam is an extremist religion, and so is the India media. But this same media feels no shame in hiding what people in Kashmir have to go through. How many innocents have been killed , are languishing in jails, are tortured and abused every second in Kashmir. Indians have been brainwashed to believe that it is the terrorists who kill innocent and civilians in kashmir and the army is trying to protect them. You are again one of the brainwashed people, to whom the truth has not reached till now. And with the close mindedness and the preconceived ideas about Islam – this curtain that is hiding the truth from you will stay there.

Regarding proclaiming that Islam is a religion of Peace, it was a religion of peace 1400 years ago, just that the media stereotype had to be openly fought after 911. Islam itself means “peace” and “submission to Allah’s will”. So it is not a new concept that Muslims created after 911. And Islam is not one of the religions that changes according to the whims and pleasures of the people following it. It is meant to be for all ages since it is the word of God. Islam gave Women rights 1400 years ago whereas they never existed in the western world till 1800’s. Just because people are uneducated and illilerate about the same, does not mean that the rights don’t exist. There is wisdom in each right, but in todays world when dressing in two bare pieces of cloth is considered to be her freedom what more can you say other than that they are being exploited in the name of their freedom and there is decrease of moral values everywhere in the name of freedom?

If India is a democratic country, where people can wear anything they want. why would me wearing the purdah for the sake of my religion be considered as opression and not as my freedom or chosing what I have to wear? Why do people have double standards? Just because this is another area where they can start religion bashing. Why should I dress the way someone else wants me to? Why should I not dress the way I feel comfortable?

I guess I am going off topic – but just went through your post in a hurry and wrote for whatever I could absorb from your ideas.

Islam which is the most visible religion, a lot of whose adherents are fundamentalist, has created a lot of problems the world over. The mixing of religion and government do not go well with our modern, democratic sensibilities and the “Live and let Live,” philosophy.

The only other philosophy which is not religious and leads to such actions is communism, as is practiced by countries like China. Where homogeneous populations make it easier for the power brokers to rule. China claims every region bordering it was part of some greater China, and all people with slanted eyes or mongoloid features should be part of China.

But I have to agree with Ramesh on the fact of Islam. In Saudi Arabia for example kids are taught to hate non-believers, even their laws reflect the fact that non-Muslims or Kafirs, are less human than Muslims. In a majority of Muslim countries, minorities have no rights and religious expression and freedom are discouraged and voilently put down.

Throughout history, Muslim invaders more so than other conquerors have destroyed local cultures, peoples, forced conversion, destroyed temples, shrines and thought it their god given right and religious duty to do so. In all other religions, where people have committed atrocities (Like Christianity) driven by religious zeal have evolved and majority of the countries that are Christian have adopted Secular Democracies that have evolved over time and have been evolving. Islam is the only religion that has not evolved from the middle ages when it came into being to unite the barbarian tribes of Arabia.

Yes, I agree with Z that all religions at the core preach the same thing, and they are means to reach a higher plane or god. Intellectuals understand this but common people need the trappings that surround the core message. It is these common people who are dangerous and perpetrate violence in the name of the religion.

India is a secular democracy, Muslims in India for Civil Cases can follow sharia. For criminal cases the common law applies. I do not know of any Muslim country where Hindus can practice their religion openly without fear of persecution. The Indian government does not consist of only Hindu’s but consists of people of all religious backgrounds including Muslims, Christians and other minorities in prominent positions. Manmohan Singh comes from the Sikh minority which is less than 4% of India’s population, I would say you cannot point to a single Muslim country whose head of state is from a minoritiy non-Muslim background.

So before jumping up and down and saying Hindu’s persecute Muslims in India, one should see the facts. As for states wanting to split up from India: I personally feel that the Indian government and the Hindu majority in India are SOFT and WEAK and so is the middle class. Try secession in China, Pakistan, or any muslim country and see the result. The revolt would be put down voilently with massive human rights abuses. Yes, states want to split from India as the Indian government, its politicians are corrupt and the federal structure does not work for the benefit of all people of India….it works only for the politicians, their friends and the rich (As in every third world country). These ethnic minorities do not get enough money for development or resources.

They do not want to split because of religious persecution, but for economic suppression and neglect by the government which not only has failed them, but a majority of the population as well over the last 50 years.

So, to Ramesh’s point, Muslim rulers by a huge margin, throughout history, have perpetrated ethnic cleansing, repression of minorities, religious persecution. This has not changed even today, and is driven by religious dogma, the rights of women in muslim countries are dismal, religious freedom is dismal, so is the freedom of speech. Which in India: Imam Bukhari can stand in the Jama Masjid in Delhi (the capital) and can openly preach sedition and support of muslim fundamentalists to his congregation (which you cannot do even in the US).

The new “One world, Islam is a religion of Peace,” is adopted by a lot of Muslims post of 911 and the acts of terrorists which many in the Muslim world sympathized with. Now since the light is being shined on them many feel they are caught in the spotlight. Deep down most of them think, like most common followers of any religion, they have the exclusive monopoly on the truth, they are the only ones going to heaven. The danger how ever is that a lot of them believe they can do this through violence.

If everyone understood the real Islam, then you would not see so much hatred against it everywhere. Its amazing a single bad thing that a Muslim does is highlighted in the media whereas the good things which Muslims do and are doing are never highlighted. Part of the hate propaganda against Islam which is very much visible in the western media and now India is no exception.

You can read it here (http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill_the_infidels.asp)

All I can do is to redirect you to sources of reading that can give you better understanding of the religion ( Allah willing ). But if you are hell bent on Islam bashing, then I am sorry that won’t be tolerated here. I don’t want to digress from the basic purpose of this blog.

People mold the verses of Quran to serve their interests and to justify their actions, doesn’t mean that Quran teaches that.

I don’t believe that you have read the Quran and the hadees, or about the life of the Prophet like you should have – read and most importantly ‘understood’ – If you would have, I would have seen a different opinion about Islam from your side. All I can do is to suggest to read it with an open mind and get answers to doubts which you have from proper Islamic sources.

If you don’t, your opinion about Muslims in general and Kashmiri Muslims in particular will stay the same. If you think that your interpretation of the Quran and the hadees is the correct one, then there is nothing I or someone else can do about it.

I had never studied Quran and Hadeeth before being driven out of valley. My idea of Islam was what we learnt in school through sufi stories. After being bitten by Islamic fanaticism, I myself read Quran and Hadeeth and realized that as long as there are such philosophies that promise their believers confirmed ticket to jannat as a sawaab for killing non-believers, there cannot be any peace possible — neither in Kashmir nor anywhere in the world. Today I wish that I had read Islamic literature earlier. At least we would have been prepared.

As I browse through world news section, my conclusion only gets confirmed. There is absolutely not a single place in the world where Muslims have learnt to live peacefully with non-Muslims. Mind you, not a single exception to this rule. Quite frankly, we pundits were fools to think that Kasmiriyat would supercede this rule.

Again you are generalizing the entire population for the people you encountered during that time.

The massacres that happened just after Pundits left are not unrelated – they were carried out after you left and not before; just to make sure the ones butchered are “Muslims”
only. Those killings are not unrelated to the shifting out of the Kashmiri Pundits.

The question here is about the plight of Kashmiris who are suffering since then. The voice raised here is for the innocents who are tortured day in an day out. The kids who have been orphaned, the widows, the mothers who have lost her sons to forced disappearances, custodial killings and fake encounters. The families who have lost their sole bread winner to the rage and indiscipline of the Indian “security forces” who are given a free hand in Kashmir. Who arrest and kill people to add to their medallions.

And if you think I should sit down and take it all as the fruit of the tree someone else harvested, I am sorry you are mistaken. The wrong that is happening around me has to be fought against. People outside Kashmir should know what is happening here, so that they know the reality behind their so called democratic and incredible India.

While I do that, you can sit, gloat and pray for the suffering of the Kashmiri people to continue. I cannot stop you from doing that and I would appreciate if you do not stop me from doing what is right.

“You should ask all these questions to Jagmohan. He is the one who drove you out of Kashmir inorder to perpetuate genocide in Kashmir more freely against muslims.”

Shafat, only those will fall for this argument who have not seen it with their own eyes. I know pretty well the name, the face and in fact entire genealogy of the person who drove me out. And let me tell you that he was not Jagmohan.

@Asif:

“Now would you please tell me why ULFA or Manipur or Tripura National Volunteers want to be independent of India? All three of them are Hindu dominated, aren’t they? Are those also Hindu-Muslim dispute?”

I never claimed that there no criminals among Hindus. Groups you mentioned are just that – gang of criminals who extort money from people in the name of independence movement.

@Z:

“Where was this question when the plight of Pundits was being talked about and the suffering of the Muslims was being covered up by the Indian media?”

Because the two of them are unrelated. When plight of pundits was being talked about at that time muslims were not the sufferers. OTOH, they were gloating over our misfortune. I have heard it from my own ears. They were hoping to bring nizam-e-mustafa just the next day and complete the routing of pundits.